The Saison Files – Tasting the Saison Strains of the Yeast Bay

Less Talk – More Yeast Writings

So you know I’m a Saison Nut, right? It’s the style I’m known for more than anything else. It’s the style I brew more than anything else. It’s playful, expansive, complex and approachable. The style has allowed me lots of room to be creative. You’ve got my Year of Saisons, my “Your Farmhouse” Saisons, my hoppy Saisons, my Champagne Saisons, my Guacamole Saisons, my Chowdah Saison, etc, etc.

I’ve got my Saison Guide, which we’ve talked about a few times and it’s even inspired one of our experiments (and soon some more as well).

The hard part about the guide though is the yeast strain descriptions. I’ve slowly but surely been working my way through them but every time I turn around – more strains are added! This time out, I decided to capture my reactions to tasting three of The Yeast Bay’s Saison strain and answer a few questions at the same time. Enjoy! (And don’t forget to go listen back to Episode 5, when Denny and I interviewed Nick from the Yeast Bay.)

What do you guys think? Did you find the same results when you tried these strains? Is there a particular recipe you’d like to try with them?

AnchorThe Thirty Second Strain Summary (Full Notes of All Strains in the Saison Guide)

  • Saison Blend – (Tested June 2016) – Initial nose of apple and cinnamon. Lightly sulfurous to close out. As the beer warms, becomes an apple bomb. Spicy forefront with a little bit of a corny aspect. Strong finish of herbal tea and cinnamon. Of the three tested this is the closest to “classic” with an overall balanced approach on the palate. Would benefit from fermenting a little cooler, I suspect.
  • Saison Blend II – (Tested June 2016) – Clean nose that jumps into a grapey/winey sensation that becomes blended with sandalwood. Hops pop out of this batch more that the others. Mouthfeel is luxurious but not as “gummy” as the French Saison strains like Wyeast 3711 French Saison. The finish is bright and straight up clove/cinnamon phenol.
  • Wallonian Farmhouse – (Tested June 2016) – Threw a lot of yeast on transfer. Had to work a little harder to get a clear pull. Initial hit on the nose is tropical fruit – hot spicy caramelized pineapple – think Upside Down cake. Palate is bone dry with a traditional “musty” earthiness that hangs through the mid palate until the spices hit in the finished with a bit of surprising tartness. (This is the only one of the three tested to actually really pop a tart character).

Episode 22 – Anything But Stale in Wisconsin

This episode we talk about two of our favorite online communities and their upcoming distributed competitions. We stop in the pub to talk updates to the North Carolina Legal Situation and a new homebrew rights situation in Nebraska. (See why it's important we keep fighting the legal fight?) Denny previews the upcoming Hop School and Drew talks about visiting Boulder CO and the AHA/BA offices. In the Brewery, we talk about the impending pumpkin crisis – ok, crisis to some and Drew's visit to Hop Barley and the Alers and their annual auction.
We revisit our Staling experiment – can you brew with pre-crushed malt that's been sitting for a month? We review the results and discuss other possible avenues of exploration. After that Denny's back in Milwaukee talking with James Beard winning chef Justin Aprahamian of Sanford Restaurant in Milwaukee, Like Minds Brewing in Chicago and the new brewpub back in Milwaukee. Denny delves into the world of fine food and fine beer. Find out why Like Minds originally opened in Chicago and how they came back home.
Then in Something Other Than Beer – Drew drops a Youtube show that really is a charming, whimisical love letter to Paris. And staying with Youtube – Drew's quick tip – well, it's not so quick but it's the video of his talk Brewing on the Ones from the National Homebrewers Conference.
Episode Links:
Brew United – http://www.brewunited.com/
SJPorr Challenge – https://sjporrchallenge.org/
Operation Liberate Homebrew (NC Rights Effort) – http://operationliberatehomebrew.org/
Nebraska Liquor Control Commision Facebook Post about Homebrew at Festivals – https://www.facebook.com/NebraskaLiquorControlCommission/posts/108099176…
YCH Hop School – https://ychhops.com/connect/events/home-brewing/hop-and-brew-school
Pumpkin Panic – https://www.craftbeer.com/brewers_banter/its-the-great-pumpkin-beer-shor…
Hop Barley & The Alers – http://www.hopbarley.org/
Staling Experiment – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/impact-crushed-malt-age-bee…
Sanford Restaurant – http://sanfordrestaurant.com/
Like Minds Brewery – http://likemindsbrewing.com/
Something Other Than Beer – Tastemade's “Alice in Paris” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsavdcJzrxU&list=PLX98sAmndWt1gxu0UAQsfF…
Quick Tip – Brewing on the Ones – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sSKHzmhrzY
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for charity: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Experimental Brew Store – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/store
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:02:32 Support Us
00:06:55 The Pub – Homebrew Law, Hop School, Boulder
00:22:19 The Brewery – Pumpkin Shortage and Hop Barley & The Alers
00:31:37 The Lab – Staling Experiment Rssults
00:43:25 The Lounge – Justin Aprahamian – Sanford and Like Minds
01:06:53 Something Other Than Beer – Alice in Paris
01:12:49 Quick Tip – Brewing on the Ones
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 21 – The Myth of Mino

This episode we talk about two of our favorite online communities and their upcoming distributed competitions. We stop in the pub to do a little talk about mashing obsessions and the law and homebrewing. We head to the library to talk about Scott Janish's article on DMS, causes and cures and his test. Denny and I talk about his favorite homebrew myths before he heads to the land by the waters – Milwaukee – where he talks to Mino Choi, a homebrewer with a culinary obsession and a couple of 50 point entries under his belt. Mino talks his process, his designing and some agressive techniques he uses to drive his fermentations.
We come back to our “Something Other Than Beer” segment with Denny enjoying spending time with Cecilia Chiang, the Chinese cuisine equivalent to Julia Child and we close out with Drew circling back to a lesson from earlier in the show!
Episode Links:
Brew United – http://www.brewunited.com/
SJPorr Challenge – https://sjporrchallenge.org/
Trumer Pils – http://www.trumer-international.com/
California AB-2172 – http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201…
Scott Janish's DMS Article: http://scottjanish.com/how-to-prevent-dms-in-beer/
Homebrew Myths – https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/6-common-homebrew-myt…
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for charity: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Experimental Brew Store – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/store
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:02:32 – Support Us
00:05:38 – BrewUnited – Interview with Olan Suddeth
00:15:12 – SJPorr Challenge
00:17:29 The Pub – Trumer Pils and Homebrew Law
00:31:18 The Library – DMS
00:40:40 The Brewery – Pico Brew and Extract Results
00:49:31 The Lab – Homebrew Myths with Denny Conn
00:56:32 The Lounge – Unknown All-Star: Mino Choi
01:40:21 Something Other Than Beer – Cecilia Chiang
01:43:42 Quick Tip – Quick Second Batch
01:44:50 Wrap up
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Writeup: Olive Oil vs No Aeration

We’re back at it! Now that HomebrewCon has passed and we can get back to our regularly scheduled program of experimental madness. And for this round, we’ll be revisiting the experiment we covered earlier this year in the podcast. (Episode 13 to be precise!)

IMPATIENT RESULT: FAILED

Executive Summary

Denny and I went into this experiment with a clear expectation of what the eventual answer would be and for once science agreed with us. It was a novel happenstance!

We had 4 IGORs (BeardedBrews, Jason Mundy, Randy Peterman and The Mossy Owl) conduct 6 tasting panels using our Simplified Amber recipe. Out of the 6 tasting runs, zero found a signficant difference between the non-aerated beer and the beer with olive oil. Are you surprised?

The Experiment

This experiment came to the crew courtesy of both Denny and I. See the thing is we know homebrewers are incredibly innovative – particularly when it comes to finding ways to make the brewing process easier and cheaper. So, some brewers stumbled on a paper from Grady Hull of New Belgium Brewing about their experiment to use Olive Oil as a replacement for oxygen in their yeast brinks. The theory is sound – we aerate our wort/yeast to provide the yeast the building blocks necessary to synthesize sterols. The yeast use the sterols to make their cell walls both strong and flexible. Of course oxygen also comes with downsides – aeration stones are fertile grounds for infection risk, unabsorbed oxygen leads to risk of oxidation and pure O2 is expensive.

Grady’s experiment was to see – ok, can we skip over the sterol synthesis part and directly give the yeast their needed sterols. Convenient source of sterols that’s cheap as hell? Oil and the bonus is you need very very little oil to deliver the necessary amount of sterols for optimum yeast strength.

A number of homebrewers went gaga for the technique. After all, a pin drop of olive oil added to the fermenter is hella cheap compared to buying a regulator, stone and O2 canisters at the Home Despot. The internet soon lit up with tales of various brewers saying “Hey, I just did this and my beer came out great.” Call us skeptical from day one of this phenom.

But here’s the thing – when we talked to Grady about the whole thing he was flummoxed by the response. Not only did NBB not pursue the use of Olive Oil in the brewery – his research was never about using OO as a replacement for aeration of wort. It was entirely about using OO as a replacement for oxygen injection into yeast agitators/brinks where the yeast could be in contact with the oil for a long period of time before getting down to fermentation. Plus that long agitation helps get the olive dissolved in solution. (It turns out that oil and a watery solution mix as well as oil and water)

We’ve argued for years that there’s really no difference between adding Olive Oil to a fermenter and adding no oxygen at all. So, let’s see what the IGORs discovered.

For the full detals of the experiment, read the experment design!

The Brew Day

For this experiment, the IGORs tackled a Simple Amber recipe because New Belgium, Fat Tire, Fat Tire is an amber, etc, etc. What we didn’t say the recipe methodology is the most profound. It just is. This particular recipe is a very stripped down version of Denny’s Waldo Lake Amber. I stripped it down to make him particularly nuts. (He twitches when you modify a recipe!)

(For the record several of the partcipating IGORs noted that the recipe was somewhat “dull”, so maybe Denny has a point!)

But overall, everyone seemed to have a pretty easy time of it. At least one IGOR overshot their gravity and had to dilute back down. Bearded Brews provided us with some pics and check out that fancy toolbox controller.

For the experiment, one batch was to be airlocked/blow off tubed with no additional aeration. This is a medium gravity beer so we weren’t too concerned about the effects of no aeration. (After all so is Fat Tire.) The other was to get a dose of Olive Oil – the magic wonder “drug”, if the internets are to believed.

The Olive Oil was introduced post chilling to a single fermenter in excrutiatingly tiny amounts. Our initial protocol called a for a pin drop into one of the batches, but our IGORs rightly said “hey, that’s not precise enough”. We changed the protocol to ask for 50 microLiters of Olive Oil. You ever try to measure out 50 micros of anything? It’s damn near impossible unless you have the right tools. Fortunately our IGORs either had the right tools on hand or they depending on the kindness of IGOR Robert Allaway who prepared a bunch of tee tiny aliquots of Olive Oil that we mailed out.

The Tastings

For this go around we had 53 total tasters spread out across 6 tastings. As usual the tasting panelists were a mix of experience levels and beer knowledge. Beers were served blind and in proper triangle fashion. No real wrinkles here.

The Tasting Problem

Interestingly, and here’s where we get into the problem of recruiting tasters – one homebrew club had a number of people take the triangle test, but they didn’t want their answers recorded. This is an ongoing issue with tasting panels (see other tests where IGORs noted that they had trouble getting tasters).

The question then is why the hell is it so hard to get tasters? My guess is a matter of ego. So many of these tests are on the edges of detectability that people confronted with the choice freak out about being wrong and so skip out on giving an answer for fear of being a fool.

How do we solve it? I don’t know if you can. I know when we recorded our HomeBrewCon episode and Marshall gave us a triangle test on air, I kinda wanted to run away from answering the question. (For the record both Denny and I got it wrong *le sigh*) Maybe the right, albeit less fun, way of doing it is to have tasters anonymously record their responses before the reveal so there’s less “public” shame. Still isn’t going to get you over the hump of people who need to be right.

The Results

So let’s dig into the results from our testers and see what there is to be seen. As we noted in the executive summary – the results are about as stark as you can expect and they’re certainly our “clearest” result ever. (For the record, we are also working on a better way to combine our results to be more sophisticated and correct. I’ve just been under the gun with other things to finish reaching out to all the parties. Expect an update)

Also, how strange to have a table with no outlying data. Now I’m suspicious. (Ok, not really)

Total Tasters Successful ID’s %age Correct p-Value
Magic Threshold 53 24 45% 0.047
All Data 53 18 34% 0.513

Tasting Panel Numeric Data

IGOR Tasters Successful ID’s %age p-Value
BeardedBrews 6 3 50% 0.320 (NOT significant)
Jason Mundy 19 5 26% 0.812 (NOT significant)
Randy Peterman 9 2 22% 0.856 (NOT significant)
The Mossy Owl 19 8 42% 0.279 (NOT significant)

Tasting Panels Qualitative Data

IGOR Beer Thoughts Experiment Thoughts
Bearded Brews Very basic beer, and unfortunately not really to my taste. I did not pick up off flavors in either split. There appeared to me more haze in the no-oil split, but I am going to pull some tasters in a couple more days to see if that was just an early sample. The bitterness was probably fine for the malt bill, but there was almost no perceptable hop flavor. If I were to make this beer for myself I would have pushed the late hops up to get something other than CaraRedWater flavor. My odd beer out was the no olive oil. Reactions ranged from drier to more body, one thought there was more hop aroma. One said he thought this beer had a “carbonic bite” (this may be a significant comment. See tasting session notes).
Jason Mundy I had another homebrewer mix these up for me and I got it wrong too 🙂 50ul of olive oil does not seem to have an impact on this beer.
Randy Peterman Malty up front with residual sweetness. Not overly hoppy. Frankly a nice Amber ale. This was an interesting experiment because the end results were very close between the two beers. I prefer (knowing what I’m drinking) the aerated beer because it’s got just a tiny bit more flavor and aroma.
The Mossy Owl “I don’t think the OO had any effect on the beer. I’ve never had 2 beers ferment side by side look and behave so similarly.

I’m not happy that the carbonation may have been so many people’s “”clue”” as to the “”correct”” beer. I still have some left and may try to send you that data later.”

Subjective Responses

As we noted above, the different beers couldn’t be successful differentated blindly. But what did the panelists think when asked for their comments?

No Aeration

  • Nose was stronger
  • More hop presence
  • Drier (yet more body)
  • More carbonic bite

Olive Oil

  • More muted
  • Sweeter
  • Darker
  • More bitter

When asked about the beer, our IGORs (who mostly knew the result) felt like they could reliably tell the difference, but that’s why we do the tasting panels.

From a brewing point of view, there was an interesting piece of data from The Mossy Owl who said

One thing I did notice though was the yeast didn’t seem in great health in the end as I kegged the beer. The yeast cakes had some autolysis type odors. Didn’t taste this in the final beers but I bet if i had left the beer on the yeast it wouldn’t have been much longer before I did. I wouldn’t have repitched any of this yeast and felt confident.

In other words, seems like we might have all committed some yeast abuse here. Please don’t call the authorities on us!

In conclusion, here’s what we think we know – save the olive oil for your pasta and salads. Adding it to your beer in the hopes of skipping out on aeration/oxygenation seems a bit of wishful thinking and really no better than doing nothing at all! Remember, this was the best case scenario for Olive Oil. The only thing I can think that we could do that would give OO even more of an advantage is to say “f’ it – make a barleywine with no aeration!”, but we like beer too much to commit that terrible a crime!

So we know we got something wrong here – let us know in the comments below or email us at podcast@experimentalbrew.com.

Episode 20 – Ferment, Drink, Sellout, Repeat

This episode we start getting back to our regular podcast format (ok, mostly), but we start in the pub where we talk the massive changes in the beer industry last week because this time they’re near and dear to Denny’s heart. From there we go off to the lounge with an interview at San Francisco’s Ferment Drink Repeat (who for the record are not sellouts – they’re awesome). What sorta crazy person creates a homebrew shop and brewery? Well, listen and find out!
After the lounge, it’s time for a Q&A where we tackle brewers questions about Saison, getting their Red on, style guidelines and why sometimes brewers can be dicks. We come back to our “Something Other Than Beer” segment with Netflix inducing massive nostalgia in Drew and we close out with a tip from a South African listener about how to deal with the whole multiple keg carbonation issue.
Episode Links:
How Terrapin Quietly Sold Out – http://www.atlantamagazine.com/drinks/terrapin-quietly-sold-big-beer-bet…
Hop Valley Sells Out -http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/34624194-75/hop-valley-brewing-co…
How Ballast Point Has Changed in the Past 9 Months – http://thefullpint.com/dans-blog/ballast-point-changed-past-9-months-w-o…
Ferment Drink Repeat – http://www.fermentdrinkrepeat.com/
Star Kay White Chocolate Extract – http://amzn.to/2ajaC6F
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for charity: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Experimental Brew Store – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/store
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:25 – Support Us
00:06:39 The Pub – Sellouts!
00:16:21 The Lounge – Ferment Drink Repeat
01:27:32 Q&A With Denny and Drew
01:43:39 Something Other Than Beer – Stranger Things
01:46:21 Quick Tip – Preserving Carbonation
01:48:52 Wrap up
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you’d like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don’t forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 19 – Brew Like An AllStar

This episode starts with a brief stop at the brewery where we walk you through some of the newest things we're playing with! (Like Drew's new mill – review on the site)
Then we ask – What happens when you get a whole bunch of brewers together and have them open up their breweries? Well, if they belong to the Falcons then it becomes their annual event “Brew with a Falcon”. Denny tests out our spiffy phone interface and calls five brewers in the Los Angeles area as they're brewing. At least one of them will be familiar to you! See what sort of crazy beer is being made!
Then it's time for our last turn around the block in Charm City as we present our HomeBrewCon presentation – “How To Brew Like An All-Star”. The audio is courtesy of the American Homebrewer's Association. Did you know that all members of the AHA get free access to audio recordings and slide decks from all of the Con's presentations? To join the AHA just click on the AHA logo on our homepage! Support the podcast and the group that fights for your rights as a homebrewer!
Episode Links:
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for charity: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Experimental Brew Store – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/store
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:41 – Support Us
00:05:47 The Brewery – Denny and Drew's Latest Brew-ventures.
00:14:10 While You Were Brewing – Brew with A Falcon Edition
00:44:07 HomeBrewCon – Brew With An All-Star Presentation, courtesy of American Homebrewers' Association.
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Brew Toy Review – Monster Mill 3

A quick note before we begin – we will always tell you when a manufacturer has provided us with goods to test. In this case, Monster Brewing Hardware did not provide Drew the mill. This is his review of his purchase.

It’s funny the little things that conspire to keep you from doing a thing you love. Time, family, work, obligations are all a part of it, but sometimes it’s also just a small pain point that’s enough to prevent you from building up the head of steam to overcome the joyful inertia of sitting on your butt (particularly when it’s hot and there’s A/C inside)

Doesn’t this look more fun than sweating over a brew kettle in the SoCal summer?
In my case, my speed bump was my old mill. I bought a good quality 2 roller mill a number of years ago because it seemed like a natural thing to do. Get bulk grain cheap, mill on demand – fresh beer! I really love having a mill on hand. Makes the brew life a more “on demand” type of thing.

My mill worked like a charm for a decade, but for the last few years, it’s become annoying and terrible. Get milling on some grain, chug along and *screech*  – the whole assemble would stop. The roller attached to the drill would keep spinning furiously, but the passive roller would be stuck. I developed a technique of carefully reaching under the mill and helping re-engage the passive roller to crush out another pound.

I tried rehabbing the mill. Taking it apart, brushing and blowing everything out, making sure there was no obvious friction wear. Checking the gap – not too tight, not too loose, etc. But no matter what, every batch became a seemingly Sisyphean struggle – mill vs man – man vs his desire to brew – man vs his desire to say “f this, I’m going to have a beer.” Even at my recent Brew With A Falcon event, the same damn thing happened (after I pre-prepped the mill). I finally decided I had to replace the old girl and put out a call on the webs for everyone’s favorite. Hands down the answer came back – Monster Mill MM-3.

N.B. Astute readers will notice I haven’t said what brand my old mill is. I haven’t because I still believe the old mill is a pretty fine mill and I’d really rather not slag on a company for the performance of a decade old piece of machinery that could probably be rehabbed by someone compentent. (aka – anyone other than me). Plus the old mill has the advantage of being less expensive than the MM-3, so there’s that too.

Last week, the MM-3 I ordered arrived and that naturally meant I had to put it to it’s paces. I assembled the mill and the hopper in a half hour and my first note on the thing – it’s a beast. That is some seriously heavy metal in the gizmo.
The Mill in Rest
Walking into the garage brewery, I have bins of grain at the ready. Vacuum sealed specialty malts on the left in tubs, base grains in buckets sealed with Gamma lids. (Each bucket holds 25 lbs). I love those lids. Aside from freshness, these methods of sealing have kept my grains rodent free for years. (The colony of feral cats in my neighborhood helps too, just like in Chicago.)

Base Grains (2-Row, Pils, Maris Otter, etc)

Specialty Grains in Tubs (Mythical Flavor Bucket in Lower Left)

To keep the test simple, I grabbed 6 lbs of Great Western 2-Row from the buckets and set about a simple timing test. After all for me, my primary worry was “Can I mill three pounds of grain with as little fuss as possible” Bonus – this also counts as the “cleaning the mill” step to clear off any remaining machining oil.

Weighing the Grain – 3 lbs only,Vasili
Next on the list of things to replace in the brewery – this drill. How it hasn’t killed me yet, I don’t know, but rest assured by the time you read this I will have replaced it! (It’s also a beast)

The Death Drill
First test – let’s fire up the old mill. Remember this is a simple 2-roller mill. One roller driven by the drill, the other by the friction of the grain falling into the gap.

The Old Mill
The Old Mill mostly cooperated today – during it’s run of 3 lbs, it only jammed up and stopped once, necessitating the ole reach under to fix. Total time to mill 3 lbs with the stoppage – 53.4 seconds according to the clock

Old Mill Time
Ok, onto the MM-3 – same test. The MM-3 chewed through the grain like a hungry beast and the only surprise I had was the mill really wants the chuck to be tightened down. Had to stop for a moment and retighten the chuck. I don’t know how well a modern keyless chuck would work and I don’t think you’d want a cordless drill anywhere near this thing. Remember, you have to put enough force into the drive shaft to drive the main roller and two passive rollers. Wimpy drills need not apply!

MM3 On the Drill
And boy – I wasn’t kidding – this bugger chewed through the malt! 22.64 seconds on the clock and no stoppages!

MM-3 Time
Ok, great time trials – how’s the malt look? It’s no good to us as brewers if the malt isn’t crushed or is overly crushed or the husk is torn to shreds! Well, let’s look, shall we?

The Grain
Pardon the crappy handwriting – the nuns never could get me to the point of proper penmanship. You can see the results for yourself. Just looking at the time differences, we can see that if the timing held up and I was crushing my grain for my usual batch of Saison Experimentale (for 15 gallons yield), I need 27.75 lbs of grain crushed. On the old mill that would take 494 seconds or 8.2 minutes. Blargh. (Assuming the usual amounts of stoppages that’s extra annoying!). On the MM-3 though – 209.5 seconds or 3.5 minutes. Much better and much less annoyance!

Let’s look at the grain crush quality. After all, the three roller setups are supposed to allow you better crushes with more cracked kernels and less damage to the husks. So, did it?

Old Mill Crush

MM-3 Crush
To my eye what I see with the old mill is a lot of kinda sorta cracked grains and some very intact husks. The grains tend to fall apart with a little pressure. The MM-3 crush, a few more torn husks, but still mostly intact, but the malt itself is mostly crushed into fine little pieces.

Now the next step is to obviously brew, so pay attention for that one coming down the pike!

Episode 18 – Saison Under Pressure

Attention, attention… this episode is brought to you by an accidentally awesome quirk of fate. After we announced our experiment (Saison Yeast – Airlock vs. Open Ferment – Does it prevent “stall”) way back when, our itinerant “Science” co-host Marshall Schott let us know that his site, Brulosophy.com was running the same experiment!
We waited and coordinated our experimental results release. Marshall released his results earlier this week and now we get together and discuss our results plus his. There are a total of five experimental runs here and what do they say? Well, put yer earbuds in and listen! (And if you think this is the last time we're doing this.. ha, you don't know how all this works! Maybe we'll do it on purpose next time!)
From our time in the Casa Verde labs, we move back to Baltimore and spend some time with the Free State Homebrew Club Guild at HomeBrewCon's “Craft Beer Kickoff” Party. We had a heck of a time with the various club members and we hope you learn a thing or two! (Plus, hey – why do you homebrew?) So come along with as we talk to a raft of clubs and a beer “celeb” or two!
Episode Links:
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for charity: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Brulosophy's Saison Experiment – http://brulosophy.com/2016/07/04/the-impact-of-back-pressure-on-the-sais…
Drew's Saison Guide (aka the stupid thing that begun this) https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts
Experimental Brew Store – https://www.experimentalbrew.com/store
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:02:50 – The Show Intro
00:05:02 Correctional Department of Corrections – Drew's Bad with Names
00:08:18 Experimental Results: Saison Under Pressure
00:44:07 AHA HomeBrewCon Free State Homebrew Clubs
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 17 – The Wrath of Conn

First time ever! Denny and Drew and a thousand of their favorite friends are in the same room – the Expo hall at the 2016 American Homebrewer's Association “HomebrewCon”. We sat down in the BrewcraftUSA booth and talked with a bunch of different folks including some of our sponsors and some of our very favorite people – including IGOR Nicki Forster who brought us a beer to taste, Marshall Schott who abused us with a triangle test and another listener, Keith Baker, who dropped a beer on Denny to make him crazy! This episode is jammed packed with questions, answers, and really interesting people so give it a listen! (Also this is your last chance to drop some money on the pooches before we get to our next charity!)
Also, a big thanks to listener Chris Nelson for our wonderful “Wrath of Conn” poster that you see on the site.
Episode Links:
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for the dogs: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs: https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Homebrew Con – Register Now!: http://www.homebrewcon.org/
Loughran Family Malt – http://www.malt.ie/
Craftmeister – http://craftmeister.com/
Brulosophy – http://brulosophy.com
PicoBrew – http://picobrew.com/
MoreBeer – https://www.morebeer.com/
BrewCraftUSA – http://shop.brewcraftusa.com/
JaDeD Brewing – http://jadedbrewing.com/
Wyeast Labs – http://wyeastlabs.com/
NikoBrew – http://www.nikobrew.com/
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:04:10 James Loughran – Loughran Family Malt
00:11:20 Teri Farendorf – Great Western
00:24:35 Jonathan Ettlie – Craftmeister
00:30:03 Nicki Forster Beer Tasting
00:39:25 Marshall Schott – Live Triangle Test
00:49:51 Annie Johnson – Pico Brew
00:59:53 Q&A: Boil Vigor
01:02:23 Chris Graham – More Beer
01:08:14 Audience Interaction – The Hop Hats
01:11:11 Brian Morton – Brewcraft USA
01:19:58 Keith Baker Beer Tasting with Randy Mosher
01:27:35 Randy Mosher
01:39:08 Clay and Jeremy – JaDeD Chillers
01:45:55 Audience Iteraction – The Sing Along
01:46:32 Tamara and Candy – Wyeast
01:51:16 Niko – NikoBrew
01:58:00 Q&A: Where do you get your Crazy Ideas
02:00:56 Q&A: The HomebrewCon Name
02:02:11 Q&A: Where Not To Cut Corners
02:05:48 Wrapup and Farewell
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 16 – Lucky Transplants

It's HomebrewCon Week! As this episode goes live we're at the hotel in Baltimore getting ready to rock out with some homebrew! So this episode is going to be a real “quick” one (for us).
In feedback Denny talks about a great response he got from Spain and then Drew has to issue a correction from the Correctional Department of Corrections about a misstate he had about yeast strains.
In the pub, we talk our “plans” for Homebrew Con in Baltimore in June – a live Q&A, a Troubleshooters Corner, Book Signings and more! Denny recounts his experience with the first “Zymurgy Live” put on by the AHA featuring Stan Hieronymus. Then Drew talks a bit about what might be a trend for the furutue of brewers pulling back from distribution.
For the interview segment in the lounge, Drew interviewed two breweries located a mere 500 ft from each other physically but a world apart in terms of brewing philosophy. Our victims this week are the fine folks of Transplants Brewing and Lucky Lukes Brewing in Lancaster CA – about as far on the edge of Los Angeles as you can get. One is all about the whacky, the culinary, the mad while the other is more traditional with classic beer style approaches. Drew talks to them about their experiences as brewers and how it works to have such proximity to your fellow brewers.
Lastly, Drew offers a tumblr account that explores the nerdy obsession of mashups.

Episode Links:
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for the dogs: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs: https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Homebrew Con – Register Now!: http://www.homebrewcon.org/
Zymurgy Live – https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/aha-events/zymurgy-live/

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/25/twisted-pine-brewery-ceasing-distri…

Transplants Brewing: http://transplantsbrewing.com/

Lucky Luke Brewing: http://luckylukebrewing.com/

Just Two Things: http://justtwothings.tumblr.com/
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:06:48 Feedback
00:08:09 Correctional Department of Corrections
00:10:02 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub
00:18:47 The Lounge – Transplants Brewery and Lucky Luke Brewing
00:21:46 Transplants
01:02:02 Lucky Luke
01:41:30 Something Other Than Beer
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 15 – All About the New England IPA

As we get ready to head to the NHC, our schedules get a little screwy (we have one more episode before the Wrath of Conn Con)
In feedback we hear about some fun experiences and a nice gesture on the part of a listener. Also we hear from others about Denny and Marshall's recent commentary about skipping over aeration/oxygenation
In the pub, we talk our “plans” for Homebrew Con in Baltimore in June – a live Q&A, a Troubleshooters Corner, Book Signings and more! The Brewers Association gets their history on with one of America's great institutions – The Smithsonian. Denny talks his overwhelming experience at the Craft Brewers Conference. And lastly we ask “Has Craft Beer Gone Too Far?”
In the library we discuss a great article from the Counter Brew website that does a really excellent job laying in the ground work for your knowledge about Brett.
At the lab where we talk the recent obsession with the hazy style called “New England IPA”. Specifically we cover the history and the theories behind the style and the infamous, hotly debated murk. And so we're going to launch a full series of explorations, because of course we will. For this first time, we're going to look at yeast impact – namely Wyeast 1056 and Wyeast 1318 in the same wort. Is one murk-tastic? And to back it up, listener Jason Faylor sent in a pair of beers with exactly this same premise so we get our tasting on (and prove that Denny and Drew can really disagree about things)
For the interview segment, we grab some time with John Holl – editor of All About Beer Magazine. We offer him a chance to lay down his opinions and his colorful New Jersey beliefs. It's an interview that exercised Denny's bleeping finger. We think we got them all!
After that, we're off to the books as we try and answer more listener questions.
Denny reminds us all to test your thermometers!
Lastly, Drew fondly explores the world of CorgiOrgy.com and some incredibly sexy Russian cakes.
Episode Links:
Patreon Remember even a buck is good for the dogs: http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs: https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Homebrew Con – Register Now!: http://www.homebrewcon.org/
BA And The Smothsonian: http://americanhistory.si.edu/topics/food-history/pages/brewing-history
“Has Craft Beer Gone Too Far”: http://www.foodandwine.com/blogs/has-craft-beer-movement-finally-gone-to…
CounterBrew The Actual Truth About Yeast: http://counterbrew.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-actual-truth-about-yeast-bre…
Denny's IPA Reviews: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/oh-say-can-you-see-through-y…
BeerAdvocate NE IPAs under the scope: http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/northeast-haze-through-a-m…
New England IPA Experiment: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/new-england-ipa-series-it-yeast
Israel Bissell IPA: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/recipes/israel-bissell-ib-ne-ipa
The Story of Israel Bissell: http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/29/news/adna-unsung29
AllAboutBeer: http://allaboutbeer.com/
CorgiOrgy.com: Seriously just click it.
Olga Noskova Mirror Cakes: http://www.boredpanda.com/mirror-glazed-marble-cake-olganoskovaa/
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:33 Theme, Intro and Feedback
00:14:12 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub
00:39:40 The Library – Brett
00:42:39 Casa Verde Labs – NE IPA – History, Style, Experiment and Tasting
01:10:34 The Lounge – All About Beer's John Holl
01:56:51 Q&A wth Denny & Drew
02:12:25 Something Other Than Beer
02:15:04 Quick Tip
02:18:26 Question of the Week, Wrap up and Coming Attractions
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Oh Say Can You See (through your beer)

In the last couple years, we’ve been seeing the growth of what I guess you could call a new style of beer….The NorthEast style, usually made as an IPA.  The common factors seems to be a “soft” bitterness (often brought about by adding large amounts of calcium chloride to the water, rather than calcium sulfate which is more usual), a massive hop flavor with a pretty forward aroma, and usually a hazy appearance.  And by “haze”, I mean a lot of them look like gravy!  Proponents of the style say “who cares how it looks, it’s about the taste”.  Others, like myself, are mystified.  Why does a good beer need to look like a bad homebrew?  Do these beers even taste like what most people think of as IPA?

In a way, this goes back to the debate about East Coast vs. West Coast IPA.  East Coast IPA is generally less bitter and hop forward, being heavily influenced by English IPA.  West Coast IPA, which is widely acknowledged to have been led by Anchor Liberty years ago, has a sharper, more intense bitterness and usually a very prominent hop aroma.  Ever since, regional proponents of one coast have derided the other coast’s preference.  But, as well all know, beer preference is subjective, so both styles have survived.  Until recently, though, it seemed to be the west coast styles that got most of the press and adoration.

As far as I know, one of the first of the new East Coast IPAs was Heady Topper from The Alchemist.  Part of the appeal seemed to be from the limited availability of it, although people also raved about the flavor of the beer itself.  It was hazy, it was massively hopped, it was only available at the brewery and you had to drink it fresh.  Seems to me like that’s a lot of rules to simply enjoy a beer!  My one opportunity to try Heady Topper was at the National Homebrew Conference in Grand Rapids a few years ago.  I have no idea exactly how old the sample was, although I was told that it was fairly fresh.  I was a bit put off by the appearance, but the aroma was inviting.  Flavorwise, I found it to be a bit “flabby”, having an unfocussed flavor that really didn’t stand out to me.  It was by no means a bad beer, but after all the hype I was disappointed.  And I said so online….apparently, over and over, and over again.

So where does the haze come from?  There seem to be several possible causes.  Some people say that it’s hop haze caused by the heavy hop loading that these beers use to achieve their flavor.  That’s certainly possible, because they do have a very prominent hop flavor and aroma.  And we all know that the polyphenols in the hops will bind the proteins in the beer to create haze.  But I’ve had beers here on the west coast (I’m thinking of Sticky Hands from Block 15 in Corvallis OR or about anything from Bale Breaker in Yakima WA) that have similar hop flavor and aroma and are clear or only slightly hazy.

Another explanation is the yeast.  The Conan strain used by The Alchemist is not only a very fruity yeast, but also reportedly a slow flocculator. The sensations I got when drinking some of these beers would certainly be consistent with yeast in suspension.

I’ve also heard that sometimes flaked barley, oats, wheat or even flour are added late in the boil to create the haze and “soften” the flavor.  I have no verification of this, but it seems to be a popular theory.

A gentleman we’ll refer to as “Mike” was kind enough to put together a selection of 10 NE beers, most of them IPA, and send them to me.  I think he may be a bit aggravated at my reactions to some of the beers, but I want to assure him (and you) that I tasted them with an open mind and hoped to find at least some that I liked.  Mike, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the effort and hassle you put out and I hope to be able to reciprocate.

Tasting Protocol
A few overall tasting notes before we start….having heard that these beers are best fresh, I let them sit in my fridge only 2 days to “relax”.  I decided I’d taste one per day so as to give them a fair chance and not burn out my taste buds.  Keep in mind that generally I’m trying to describe the beers.  If I make a value judgment, it should be pretty clear, but some of the descriptors can sound negative when they’re really only words to describe the beers.  And also keep in mind that these are my subjective opinions.  Based on how well they sell and the vehemence of their defenders, there are a lot of people who really like the style.

Also, I asked around if I should pour the entire can or bottle into my glass or decant carefully.  I didn’t get a good answer anywhere, so the first three beers were poured with all the stuff in the bottom of the can in them.  That could account for my mouth feel comments in the first 3 beers.  After that, I decanted them and left all of that behind.

Terminology Q – What the Heck is Juicy?
And finally, the word “juicy”…..I’ve talked about this both on the podcast and online.  I have yet to really figure out how “juicy” describes a beer…but I’m trying.  When I think of “juicy”, I think of fruit like raspberries or a tangerine.  When you bite into it, the sweet juice explodes across your palate in a flood of liquid sweetness.  Is this what the advocates are talking about?  When I ask I can’t get consistent responses. It’s like “juicy” means different things to different people.  Is it possibly a combination of the fruity yeast and hops and thick mouth feel?  And why is that described as “juicy”?   I just don’t know yet, but I hope to get it sussed.

OK, enough of that…let’s drink some beer!

The Tasting
Eureka with Citra – Tree House Brewing – Monson MA – American Blonde Ale – 4.1% ABV


Beer pours hazy and opaque with a straw color.  It has a tight white head with pretty good retention.  It has an herbal aroma with dank hop notes-you can almost smell the hop cones.  The bitterness is low, but not so low as to be unbalanced.  It has a dry, tannic (not in a bad way) hop flavor.  There is some back of the palate bite, a little bit if bite up front and a mid palate “hop vegetation” taste.

Not a bad beer.  I kinda like it and I certainly wouldn’t send it back, but I also wouldn’t order another one.  As I continue drinking, I get a back of the palate minerally aftertaste.  There is a slightly gritty mouth feel and what I detect as an astringency from the hops.  Remember, I poured the entire can here!

Green – Tree House Brewing – Monson MA – AIPA 7.5% ABV

This beer is hopped with Galaxy hops, one of my favorites.  The label says the aroma has notes of pineapple, orange sorbet, and tangerine and is “massively juicy”.  You’d think that would give me a clue about what “juicy” means, but no such luck.  The character is very fruit forward, but I have to admit I’d never think “juicy”.

The beer pours completely opaque, and has a tight white head with good retention.  But it looks uninviting and…well…ugly.  There are dank notes of orange and tangerine in the flavor.  The bittering is very soft.  There are some fruit notes up front, more mid palate, and then it dies.  There was no finish.  The mouth feel was gritty and astringent and left my mouth feeling like it was coated with fuzz.  The fruit flavor lingers on and is quite tasty, but the bitterness and flavor both seem muted.  There is eventually a nice tangerine aftertaste that comes on.  It’s not a bad beer at all if you don’t look at it, but if you do it leaves you wanting to see the light playing through the beer.  There is a huge hop flavor and good aroma, but the coated, dry feeling it leaves in my mouth makes me certain I wouldn’t want another one.  Is that from hops, yeast, starch?  Who cares…I don’t care for it.

Alter Ego – Tree House Brewing – Monson MA – AIPA 6.8% ABV

Pours hazy, opaque, orange gold color.  Tight white head with pretty good retention.  Aroma of oranges with notes of lemon and lime.  There’s a little dankness and a mango aroma emerges as the beer warms.  Flavor is a little bitterness up front, an herbal mid palate, and some bitterness in the finish.  It has the same dry, coating mouth feel but not quite so strongly.  It’s my favorite so far, but I have to admit I wouldn’t go out of my way to drink it.  It’s also the first of these that has what I would call “apparent bitterness”.  The flavor of this one is great, but the mouth feel is very off putting.

NOTE: After this beer, I started wondering if I was missing something by not pouring the dregs.  I’ heard people say that one reason Heady Toper is supposed to be drunk from the can is that it continually stirs up and remixes the dregs on the bottom of the can.  I decided to do both…I poured the first half of the remaining beers carefully, but after drinking that I poured the entire remainder into my glass to see what the difference would be.

The IPA – Building 8 – Northampton MA – 6.5% ABV – &) IBU Simcoe, Citra, Mosaic

YES!  Clarity!  Straw gold color, tight beige head with good retention.  Just short of brilliant, but very clear.  Aroma of tangerine, lime, orange, mixed berries.  There’s bitterness up front, citrus fruit in the middle, and a lingering dry finish with fruit and hop notes.  A very well made beer with no apparent flaws.  Medium body and a lively mouth feel.  Crisp, clean and refreshing…really liking this one!

Sap – Tree House Brewing – Monson MA – AIPA – 7.3& ABV

Appropriate name because on opening the can I was hit with a huge piney aroma.  Pours with a tight white head that dissipates quickly.  Very hazy and opaque.  Aromas of pine, orange, mango, maybe a bit of lemon.  There’s an orangey bitterness up front, herbal notes mid palate, and more like mango in the back.  It’s not as “crunchy” and astringent as the other Tree House beers I’ve tried, but still a very drying finish with some cotton mouth.  A fairly full mouth feel but still enough bitterness to make a statement.

Haze – Tree House Brewing – Monson MA – IIPA – 8.2% ABV

Hop aroma wafts up to me as soon as I open the can.  The beer is hazy (well DUH!), opaque, and a straw yellow color.  It has a tight white head with good retention.  The aroma is full of fruit…orange, lime, lemon with some dankness mixed in.  The flavor is delicious fruit up front and mid palate with some bitterness at the back.  There is a very dry, astringent finish.  Full body, slight grit in the mouth feel.  I love the flavor and the mouth feel isn’t as objectionable on this one.  I kinda like this beer!  If only it was clear….I’d love to try a clear version of this beer against a hazy one to help me understand what it is that haze brings to the party in my mouth.

Santilli – Night Shift Brewing – Everett MA – AIPA 6% ABV

Pours very clear, just short of brilliant.  The beer has a light gold color and a tight, foamy white head with excellent retention.  The fruit aroma hits you from a couple feet away.  There are notes of orange, tangerine, and mango combined with a spicy herbal hop character.  Flavor os of fruit up front and bitterness mid palate with fruit and a dankness from the hops in the finish.  It has a very dry finish with a minimal amount of astringency from all the hops.  There is no grit in the finish on this one.  It has a medium full body.  It seems to have more bitterness and less “juiciness” than some of the other examples.  It still has a big fruit character but seems more like a “traditional” AIPA.  The fruit fades a bit as the beer warms.  Pouring the dregs from the can doesn’t make much difference in either flavor or mouth feel.  I like this beer, but maybe it’s just comfort from being more like I expect an AIPA to be.

Steal This Can – Lord Hobo Brewing Co. – Woburn MA – IPA 6.5 ABV

There are fruit, herb and spice notes in the aroma, along with dankness.  The beer is very clear and has a gold color with an orange hue to it.  It has a tight, foamy white head with excellent retention.  The fruit aroma takes a back seat to the spice, herbs and dankness.  There is an herbal, vegetal (not in a bad way!) tart bitterness up front, more of the same in the middle, and not much flavor on the finish.  Just a lingering bitterness.  There is a hint of lime in both the flavor and aroma.  It has a medium body and lively mouth feel.  Not a bad beer, very straightforward.

Sea Hag – New England Brewing – Woodbridge CT – AIPA 6.2% ABV

The beer is brilliantly clear with a golden color and a huge beige head with good retention.  Aroma of oranges and tangerines with a background of tropical fruit.  As it warms, hops dankness becomes more prominent, then the fruit fades back in.  The flavor is bitterness up front, fruit mid palate, and a lingering dry finish.  There is a very slight note of oxidation to it, but not so much as to be objectionable.  There were no dregs in this can to pour into my glass.  This is another more traditional AIPA, with a lower fruit presence and more bitterness than other examples.

Be Hoppy – Wormtown Brewery – Worcester MA – AIPA 6.5% ABV

This is the only example I had that came in a bottle rather than a can.  The label says they double dry hop it and use a hopback.  The beer is very clear with an orange gold color to it.  There is a tight beige head with great retention.  Big citrus aromas….orange, tangerine, grapefruit.  After the fruit, you start to get herbal and dank hop aromas.  A wonderful, well rounded flavor coats your mouth.  There is fruit up front, an herbal dryness mid palate, and a very dry, maybe slightly astringent, finish.  Medium body, lively mouthfeel.  Another winner, a very drinkable beer.

Conclusive Tasting Notes (or Something Like That)

So, after all of that, here are my thoughts on the NE IPA style….based on these examples, there seems to be more than one NE IPA style.  While some of these beers were extremely hazy, others were as clear as any other beer you’ll see.  All exhibited a lot of tropical fruit aromas and flavors and pretty much all of them had citrus notes, too.  The ones without haze and grit were great examples of the “traditional” AIPA.

But that haze…I’m still at a loss to explain how that improves a beer.  Yes, it does significantly alter the mouth feel, which is what proponents seem to be looking for.  But in my opinion (and remember, it’s ONLY an opinion) the mouth feel isn’t altered in a positive way.  It not only feels strangely thick and gritty in my mouth, it seems to mute some of the flavors.  And that seems to be a good thing also to the people who like the style.  I’ve heard it said that you can get extreme fruitiness with subdued, soft bitterness by making beers like this.  Tastes are subjective as we all know….they’re welcome to their opinion, but those beers just don’t offer the crisp, refreshing flavor and sparkling appearance that I enjoy in an AIPA.

I also can’t reach any conclusions about the source of the haze.  In some of the Tree House beers, for example, the grit in the mouth feel could be from either hops or yeast.  If I had to make a guess, in those beers at least, I don’t think the grit was from unconverted starches as I’ve heard surmised.  But there’s no way of knowing for certain what created it.  And it’s entirely possible that each brewery has their method.

I may have finally gotten a bit of an idea about what “juicy” means in relation to these beers, though.  Could it be that the combination of the intense citrus/tropical hop flavor and low bitterness, combined with the thick mouth feel, kind of remind people of orange juice, with the haze and grit being the pulp in the juice?  I dunno,,,,that’s about all I can think of and I haven’t heard a description from anyone to compare mine to.

In general, I really enjoyed these beers and I want to once again give a huge thanks to Mike for the trouble and expense he went to in order for me to hopefully finally understand the NE IPA style.  I hope he’s not too disappointed in the results!  I can assure him (and you!) that I’ll continue to explore the style.

Episode 14 – Season of the Bruce

Another episode and a new feature! Read on!
In feedback we hear more about people's weight loss journies. Could we be on the way to skinny brewers? Also a listener chimes in to let us know that he won serious medalage with Drew's Peanut Butter Jelly Time recipe.
In the pub, we talk our “plans” for Homebrew Con in Baltimore in June – a live Q&A, a Troubleshooters Corner, Book Signings and more! We talk about the 500th Anniversary of the Rheinheitsge-whatever and we revisit the Moonlight vs. Moonlight Trademark fight.
In the library we discuss Scott Janish's great article about how dry hopping adds bitterness, just not the way you think it does!
At the lab where we talk the next experiment you can join in on – Saison Yeast and the dreaded “stall”. Drew's advocated a simple change – open fermentation – to avoid the nasty tendency that WLP 565 and Wyeast 3724 have to start strong, take a two week nap and then finish the job. Is he right? Let's see!
We launch a new variety of interviews that we're tentatively calling “Unknown All-Stars” where we interview brewers that you may not have heard of, but that we think you should. For our first crack, we're talking with one of Drew's brewing mentors – Bruce Brode. A long time brewer, ex-President of the Maltose Falcons and one of the shaping forces of the BJCP Guidelines. You'll really want to hear all the knowledge Bruce can drop.
After that, we're off to the books as we try and answer more listener questions.
Lastly, the guys talk a bit about Prince (boo) and Drew's most recent YouTube obsession.
Episode Links:
Patreon – Remember even a buck is good for the dogs! – http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs – https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Homebrew Con – Register Now! – http://www.homebrewcon.org/
Oliver Wesseloh – German Brewer response to Reinheitsgebot: https://www.facebook.com/notes/oliver-wesseloh/creative-brewers-of-germa…
Brian Hunt – Moonlight Brewing's Response – http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/brian-hunt-of-moonlight-brewing-remarks-o…
Scott Janish: Increasing Bitterness from Dry Hopping: http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/
Saison Experiment: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/saison-yeast-airlock-vs-open…
Drew's Saison Guide: https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts
Draft Resistive Gate: https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/resistive-gate-draft-beer-flow-control
Kegerators: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/podcast-episode-14-pics
Youtube – Jas. Townsend and Son, Inc.: https://www.youtube.com/user/jastownsendandson
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:33 Theme, Intro and Feedback
00:08:35 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub
00:22:20 The Library – Bittering from Dry Hops
00:30:00 Casa Verde Labs – Saison Open Ferment vs. Closed Ferment
00:40:00 The Lounge – Unknown All-Stars – Bruce Brode
01:16:17 Q&A wth Denny & Drew
01:30:54 Something Other Than Beer – Prince and James Townsend and Sons
01:34:29 Question of the Week, Wrap up and Coming Attractions
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 13 – Olive Oil and Black Man

Another episode and this time we're here with Olive Oil results!
In the pub, we talk our “plans” for Homebrew Con in Baltimore in June – a live Q&A, a Troubleshooters Corner, Book Signings and more! We talk some gluten free barley, a new name for an old country and why some trademark fights make us sad.
A new room is added to the house as we sit down in the library to discuss the imminent release of Homebrew All-Stars!
Then to the lab where Marshall joins the guys as they discuss the IGOR's results of their Olive Oil vs. No Aeration efforts. Can you use Olive Oil to cheaply replace aeration?
We go to Dallas where Drew talks with Barrett Tillman of both Black Man Yeast and Deep Ellum Brewing Company about his experiences as a brewer, his love of all things sour and funky and why he decided to start a mini-yeast company.
After that, we're off to the books as we try and answer more listener questions.
Drew adds a quick tip about immersion circulators and brewing
Lastly, the guys hit the kitchen as Denny offers some sourdough advice and Drew deals with a bunch of nut sacks.
Episode Links:
Patreon – Remember even a buck is good for the dogs! – http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs – https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Homebrew Con – Register Now! – http://www.homebrewcon.org/
Gluten Free Barley: https://www.yahoo.com/news/beer-brewers-toast-australian-gluten-free-bar…
Olive Oil Experiment – http://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/olive-oil-vs-no-aeration
Black Man Brew – Barrett's site – http://www.blackmanbrew.com/
Deep Ellum Brewing – http://www.deepellumbrewing.com/
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:44 Theme, Intro and Feedback
00:06:21 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub
00:19:57 The Library – Homebrew All-Stars
00:26:57 Casa Verde Labs – Olive Oil vs. No Aeration
00:51:08 The Lounge – Barrett Tillman
01:39:13 Q&A wth Denny & Drew
01:51:21 Quick Tip – Immersion Circulator
01:53:01 Something Other Than Beer – Sourdough, Nuts
01:59:41 Question of the Week, Wrap up and Coming Attractions
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs
Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Episode 12 – Going Stale

It's Episode 12 and we're announcing our next experiment amongst other things! We start with listener feedback – everyone was intrigued by and puzzled by the results of our First Wort Hop experiment. So were we!
At the pub, we talk about how the results of the GC election with lots of teasing that's not meant to be taken seriously! We announce that we have “plans” for Homebrew Con in Baltimore in June. Denny gets to rant and rave at the moon with his latest pet peeve and Drew shares an awesome example of how sometimes the customer isn't right at all.
We make a quick stop in the brewery to talk about getting your beer can on
Then to the lab where we dig into every homebrewer's experience. You go to the homebrew shop full of good intentions, buy some grain and mill it. Then you can't brew for a month or two – is your grain still good? Oh bother – guess we'll find out, won't we?
We go to the Pacific Northwest Homebrewers Conference where Denny interviews Annie Johnson – one of our favorite brewers. Not only has she won two amazing brewing achievements – AHA Homebrewer of the Year and Pilsner Urquell's Masterhomebrewer, but she manages to keep a playful side to her brewing. Listen and learn! (Including her secret obsession)
After Annie, we hit the books for a couple of questions, including one that really made us do some research to avoid our knee jerk “are you kidding us?” reaction. That was awesome!
Denny drops his quick tip about being a yeast abuser.
And then Denny talks about his soon to be assembled chicken coop and the artisans behind it. Drew then drops two things – Billy Dee is back as Colt 45's spokesman and Sweden has a phone number. Yup, Sweden. It's awesome.
Episode Links:
Patreon – Remember even a buck is good for the dogs! – http://www.patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
Freedom Service Dogs – https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Governing Committee Results – http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/2016-aha-governing-committee-…
Homebrew Con – Register Now! – http://www.homebrewcon.org/
Black Acre Brewing – http://blackacrebrewing.com/
Black Acre Brewing's Social Media Rant – https://www.facebook.com/jordan.gleason.1/posts/10106173966458658
Beer Monks Canning – http://beermonks-socal.com/
Cross Roads Ca nning – http://www.crossroadscanning.com/
Saison Figolla Recipe – https://www.maltosefalcons.com/recipes/saison-figolla
Stale Malt Experiment – http://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/impact-crushed-malt-age-beer…
Denny's Old Stoner Recipe – http://www.experimentalbrew.com/recipes/dennys-old-stoner-barleywine
The Diastatic Activity Of Hops, Together With A Note On Maltase In Hops – http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1941.tb06070.x/ab…
Malta – http://www.delicioussparklingtemperancedrinks.net/MaltaGoya.html
Denny's Chicken Coop Artisan – http://soliddesignwoodworking.timbl.net/
Billy Dee! – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAKcia7WwVA
NPR Calls Sweden – http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/07/473438101/call-a-random-swede-we-tried-it-out
NOTE: In the Q&A segment, when we answer a question abpout hop degradation, I mention that YCH Hops now prints the HSI (Hop Storage Index) on the bags of hops homebrewers buy. Here's how you can use that….HSI shows you the alpha acid loss in the hops over 6 months at a 68F storage temperature. As an example of how it works, let's say you have some hops that start at 10% AA and have an HSI of .250. That means that in 6 months of storage at 68F, the AA% will drop to 7.5%. But since we all know that degradation of hops also depends on temperature, if those hops are stored at 28F, the AA is 9.0%. In effect, each 10F drop in strage temp equates to about .5% AA increase. There's more to it than this, though, and in the future we hope to have someone from YCH on to talk about HSI.
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:04 Theme, Intro and Feedback
00:10:24 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub
00:24:36 The Brewery – Mobile Canning
00:33:36 Casa Verde Labs – Going Stale
00:43:37 The Lounge – Annie Johnson
01:07:37 Q&A wth Denny & Drew
01:39:27 Quick Tip – Yeast Abuse
01:46:14 Something Other Than Beer – Coops, Billy Dee, Sweden
01:51:35 Question of the Week, Wrap up and Coming Attractions
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss

Confessions of a Yeast Abuser

I have a confession to make…I am a yeast abuser. And I have been for years. Yes, I know all the “rules” and try to follow them, but sometimes I fail and resort to….yeast abuse. Recently I brewed a batch of my Rye IPA recipe on my Zymatic. Looking in the fridge, I saw some WY1450 with a date of June 26, 2015….10 months old. I thought “I could make a starter with that”, but then I thought “Damn, that would take effort”.

I simply took it out of the fridge and smacked it to see if there was anything left alive in there. Sure enough, the pack swelled. The yeast abuser in me was delighted….”hey, it’s only 2.5 gal. of a 1.065 beer….that should work without a starter!”. I know, I know….yeast abuse.

After the beer was done, I sanitized the smack pack, cut off the corner and poured it in. The wort was at 63F. I was nervous, but had faith in my laziness.

When I checked the beer 24 hours later, nothing.

24 more hours and still nothing.

About 12 hours after that, I saw the first signs of fermentation and thought “good enough”.

12 hours after that there was a huge krausen that had formed.

After a week-10 days, I opened the keg I was fermenting in and saw that the foam had dropped quite a bit, but was still there. Took a gravity reading an got 1.030….damn, too high. Let it go for another week.

Yesterday I noticed the foam had completely dropped, so I crashed the temp to 33F. Took a gravity reading and it was 1.013…exactly on the money for a FG for that beer!

Poured the gravity sample into a PET bottle, put on a carb cap, and hit it with 30 psi. After 45 min. in the freezer, I had a cold, carbed sample to try. And it was delicious….perfect….exactly what that beer should be. Yeast abuse had paid off again. Sure it took a bit longer to ferment than usual, but that seems to be the only downside.

The moral of this tale is that you should trust your experience. It’s great to know what the rules are, and I advise you to follow them until you have enough of your own experience to draw on. And once you do, go with it…trust yourself.

Try what seems to make sense to you, but in the end trust what you know to be personally true. And pour yourself a beer.

Episode 11 – First Hops Then Rodney

It's Episode 11 and experimental results are back! We start with listener feedback – namely, y'all really loved the Session Beer Recipe collection and the Q&A episode. Looks like we're going to have to keep answering questions!
At the pub, we talk about how hops are being explored as actual medicine and why sadly this doesn't mean your Quadruple IPA is about to become “healthy”, how our sponsor PicoBrew went to 11 for Denny and discuss why we feel that bars and breweries should offer samplers (and why the money crunchers back us up on this assertion).
Then to the lab where we comb through the results of Denny's favorite experiment – First Wort Hopping vs. 60 minute bittering. First though we start with listener Tim Hagan's fairly clear explanation of the meaning of P-Value. We also talk about why some folks are encouraging a move away from P-Value as the end all be all of science. And then we dig into the experiment! What new and interesting twists did our IGORs find this time? Is there an actual impact here or are we living in a land of make believe?
We go to the Pacific Northwest Homebrewers Conference where Denny interviews Rodney Kibzey, multiple award winning brewer – no seriously, the man won the Sam Adams Longshot Competition twice. Rodney talks up his “secrets” for winning. So you might want to listen to the man.
Denny drops another quick tip from our AHA Forum friends – Don't Get Caught Up With The Shiny Gear!
Drew then leaves us with two something other than beers – Falcons nesting at Briess and then, because you, the listeners, asked Drew talks about how he lost 112 lbs in 13 months and still drank beer.
Episode Links:
Freedom Service Dogs – https://freedomservicedogs.org/
Hops as Medicine – http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/researchers-are-brewing-up-medicines-from-beer-hops/
The Value of Fractional Pours – https://www.brewersassociation.org/articles/the-value-of-fractional-pours/
Rethinking P-value – http://www.stats.org/mismeasure-scientific-significance/
Am Stats of P-value – http://amstat.tandfonline.com/doi/suppl/10.1080/00031305.2016.1154108
Briess Falcon Nest Cam – http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/new-live-falcon-cam-atop-the-briess-manitowoc-grain-elevator/
Images of Drew's Weightloss – http://imgur.com/a/CF3lL
Episode Contents:
00:00:00 Our Sponsors
00:03:28 Theme and Intro
00:05:20 Feedback
00:08:41 Beer Life from the Experimental Brewing Pub – Hops as Medicine, Pico Goes to 11, The Boon of Sampler Flights
00:20:59 Casa Verde Labs – Exploring P-Value and Experimental Results – FWH vs Bittering
00:42:05 The Uke
00:42:36 Medal Secrets with Rodney Kibzey
01:05:37 Q&A wth Denny & Drew
01:25:38 Quick Tip – Don't Get Caught Up
01:27:42 Something Other Than Beer – Briess's Falcon's Nest & Drew's Weight Loss
01:40:04 Question of the Week, Wrap up and Coming Attractions
This episode is brought to you:
American Homebrewers Association
BrewCraft USA Craftmeister NikoBrew PicoBrew
Wyeast Labs

Interested in helping Denny and Drew with the IGOR program (aka help us run experiments!) – contact them at igor@experimentalbrew.com. We want more Citizen Science!
In the meanwhile, subscribe via your favorite podcasting service (iTunes, etc). Like our podcast, review it – talk it up! If you have comments, feedbacks, harassments, etc, feel free to drop us a line at podcast@experimentalbrew.com. Follow us on Facebook (ExperimentalHomebrewing) or Twitter (@ExpBrewing). If you have questions you'd like answered in our Q&A segment, send an email to questions@experimentalbrew.com!
Don't forget you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to http://patreon.com/experimentalbrewing
This episode can be downloaded directly at https://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/d…
Podcast RSS Url: http://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast.rss